Thursday, 26 September 2013

Facebook discussions about Catholicism v Protestantism


Lord Jesus, let Your prayer of unity for Christians
become a reality, in
Your way.
We have absolute confidence
that you can bring your people together,
we give you absolute permission to move.
Amen

I have been at the pc all day.  Don't know why I sometimes do this to myself because it is very tiring.  I forgot I had pledged to fast from my pc every Thursay!

Below is the result of my labours!  Who will read it?  Will anyone read it?  Will anyone who does read it leave a comment?

Over the years, I have been given an understanding that it is part of my vocation - which is primarily that of being a wife and mother - to defend the Church, founded by Christ, against the misunderstandings and downright lies, of non-Catholics of every other belief and none.  By doing this, I am talking about Christ because I am telling the doubters they will find the full truth about Him within the Catholic Church which faithfully preserved the copies of the Old Testament that Jesus and the Apostles used; faithfully preserved the new writings coming out in the first century by the Apostles,; eventually put all the books of the Bible together in the format we have it today; and was super-vigilant to protect new editions of it once the printing press made it easier to disseminate.  This wonderful institution founded by Our Lord Himself which preaches Christ at every Mass and in every other possible way has been under demonic attack for two thousand years, and will always be under attack, but Christ promised it His eternal protection.
By defending the Church, I invite others to look into it, to read correct versions of our Bible, (there are error-filled versions around so one has to know the difference); to learn about all the Sacraments Jesus gave us, the full knowledge of which was handed down by the apostles via the Church Fathers; to learn about all the Sacraments Jesus gave us, the full knowledge of which was handed down by the apostles via the Church Fathers; to study what are really our doctrines - not what non-Roman Catholics say are our doctrines; to encourage them to read interesting books and articles about the Faith; to read about converts to the Faith, especially the world famous ones; to understand why we venerate Saints, and so on and so forth. 

As a point in question:  non-Roman Catholic Christians insist we are idolaters who worship Mary and other Saints - because they are parroting what they have been taught through the literature of their own institutions that broke away from the Mother Church of Christianity in the 16th Century.  Catholic devotion to the Saints is NOT and NEVER, NEVER has been preached as essential for salvation.  NO ROMAN CATHOLIC IS OBLIGED TO VENERATE MARY OR ANY OTHER SAINT.  The majority of us do so because we want to.   These devotions are inspirational and they keep us close to God.  But there are Catholics who are not interested in these devotions.

Protestants today make Marian devotion an issue by using it as one of many excuses to not actually look at what the Church teaches is necessary for salvation.  Now, on that we can debate.  Interestingly, Luther never refuted Our Lady’s standing though he refuted the Church’s authority to make it an article of faith that she was assumed.  Luther’s assumption was that he knew better than the Church, who under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit had preserved this truth which it received about Mary’s assumption via the Church Fathers. 
Nowhere has the Church taught that venerating Saints, saying the Rosary, and loving Mary as our spiritual mother is essential to salvation.   I am sorry there are people who cannot accept this.  I always invite them to please read the Catechism with a trust-worthy Bible in the other hand.  (That means a Bible with the same books in it that all Christians used up till the time of the so-called Reformation.)

I personally do have a devotion to the Saints, especially to Mary.  In the Jewish tradition, by the way, the King’s mother had an equal social standing to the King and ruled in his stead when he was away.  My devotions consolidate my belief in and my love for Jesus whom I have loved since I was about five years old.  They increase my desire for the Sacraments of Confession and the Eucharist.  I only began to pray the Rosary when I was 46 years old and it was when I began to do this that my desire to read and understand better the Scriptures developed.  I pretty quickly learned that reading the Scriptures on my own was a waste of time.  I needed an authoritative teacher, and that had to be the one that preserved and put the Bible together. 
A key Protestant misconception about Catholicism came into the world via a Muslim vizier called Ibn Khazem in Cordoba in the 11th Century: this is the conviction that the Catholic Church changed the true teaching of Jesus and the Apostles at the Council of Nicea.  Today, Muslims say that Jesus was an Islamist prophet and His disciples were proto-Muslims.  Before Ibn Khazem, Muslims accepted the historic validity of the Bible as a holy book of a specific group of people, Christians.  They did not accept Christian interpretation of Christ’s divinity and human nature, but they did not deny the validity of their books.   Centuries afterwards, Protestants said we added on teachings that were not there before. 

What the Council actually did after a fair debate was to affirm the CORRECT teachings of Christ’s divinity and His human nature, against the new heresy of a Catholic bishop, Arius, which was gaining ground in the 4th Century.  People like Arius were losing the Faith!  He was dragging the weak and ignorant after him!  Of course the Church had to do something about that!  In fact, Arianism submerged and destroyed the Church in many areas for years but Christ was in charge, He had made His promise about protecting the Church and He kept it.  That particular “deluge” served to strengthen the Church and to clarify the meaning of particular Scriptural references so that Arius and all future Ariuses were confounded.  All such “spiritual deluges” that occur over the centuries, caused by the weak human beings who are part of the Body of Christ, eventually strengthen the Church.
Posted later on the same day: I have been thinking about authority. The big problem within the non-Catholic Christian community towards Catholicism is a dislike of authority so profound that it will not even accept that God Himself could have chosen to set up an authoritative institution here on earth! Despite Matthew 16:18-19 and other verses.

I am in favour of dialogue, i.e: ecumenism, because it is important that the Truth is made available to all who are talking to each other. That does not mean the Catholic Church must deny her God-given Sacraments, for example, but should be allowed explain to others why she knows them to be such. Nor does she need to apologise for promoting veneration of Mary and the Saints since her historical documents show that the very first Christians had these devotions.

In the first eleven centuries, there were only Christians. Europe was called Christendom and Christians believed all the doctrines of the Catholic Church. All accepted all the Sacraments. All had devotions of one tradition or another to Mary and the Saints. The Arian heresy of the 4th Century was the first serious shredder of Christ's Body. In the 11th Century the Schism between eastern Christians and western Christians added to Its Wounds. Incidentally, the problems of those eastern Christians were not connected to veneration of Mary and other Saints, or to infant baptism, or to changes in Scripture, but to the disagreement about the place of the Holy Spirit within the unity of the Godhead as expressed in the Creed - in other words a disagreement about the UNDERSTANDING of specific texts about the Holy Spirit - which became a handy excuse to break away when the geo-political conflicts became overwhelming.

Here is a partial list of some of the movements that broke away either from Catholic Chritianity or from one another, and if you read about them from informed sources you will see how their reasons conflict one with the other: Arians, Monophisites, Nestorians, Cathars, Greek and Russian Orthodox, Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglo-Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, Free Church, Pentecostals, Unitarians, Christian Scientists, Christadelphians and so on and so on. Someone did a computer count of the Christian churches outside the Catholic Church which have split off from one another and there are apparently more than thirty thousand and counting. How can every individual pastor be correct in his interpretation of the Scriptures?

I had a message from X today, 26th Sept 2013, saying I talk only about the Church and not about Jesus.
This was my response:
Yes, X, I do talk about the Church a lot.  It is necessary because I am always being confronted with hostility towards “The Church”.  But when my personal contact is listening to me on the street, I start by talking to him about Jesus, and Jesus’ love for him.  I give him prayer cards to encourage the start of a prayer life so that he will be drawn to Jesus.  I encourage him to buy or borrow a Bible and to read it, and I give him links to websites to help him understand and think about what he is reading.
P.S: I know Protestants who are very sincere Christians within the narrow confines of their beliefs, but the movement whose followers came to be called Protestants was an evil heresy which scourged the Body of Christ and divided it, much as the earlier heresy of Arius had done in the 4th Century. Within a couple of years of the start of Luther breaking away from the Church, there were several different groups who disagreed with him as well as with the Church, and today, there are thousands of "churches" that have differences of opinion one with the other. The Body of Christ of which Jesus is the Head is the Catholic Church because Christ's Body cannot be divided. To think otherwise is to deny Christ's power to protect it and to deny his prayer, "Father, may they be one." 
The response of X to me:
Do you not realize that you are hostile towards those you call protestants? Do you not realize that you are always attacking non-Catholics? Many of the things you say about "protestants" is complete nonsense and comes from pure ignorance. The more you go on the more I realize how wrong it all is. You have made me see that. But you know, I am fully confident that the Lord will one day vindicate those you are always attacking, and that you are in for a big shock. So I will leave it there, I should have done that long ago as another wiser person did. May your eyes be opened to see the truth and may you love and not hate those whom God loves and who belong to Him and who are His children. The Bible tells us to love the brethren, you do not.
My reply to X:
Dear X, if you want to tell me that I am writing "nonsense" you have to specify which sentence or paragraph is nonsense so that I am given the chance to respond otherwise you are wasting your time as well as my own. I may be saying things about your belief system which annoy you but I am not attacking you as an individual. You may be annoyed with the arguments I raise against your arguments, but in debates that is permitted. As far as loving one’s brethren goes, your own language does not suggest love of me or of Catholics generally. Quite the opposite! Please do “walk away”,  and be at peace.

In fairness, though, please remember that on my own FB, and on the FB pages of my real-life RC friends, I am free to post websites and messages that support our beliefs and to defend the Catholic Church against the postings of anyone writes against it. I do not go into your FB to deliberately offend you; I cannot even remember the last time I went onto your Timeline. And you are not obliged to read anything that comes onto your pages with my name on it. If you are tempted, hit the button on the top right of the posting which will delete it. Out of sight, out of mind :-)
J. But I will always stand up to anything you write against the True Faith if it comes into my FB via a friend’s FB. God bless you.

This was not posted though I was sorely tempted.  It is painful to hear the words, "idolators", "child abusers", "down-treaders of the poor", and similar insults said to one in encounter after encounter with the Evangelicals and Pentecostals I meet.  The abuse starts from these particular Christians the moment I tell them, "Hello.  I am a Catholic and I would like to share my Faith with you."  I never return the rudeness but I try to show them their understanding of us is wrong.  However, they rarely listen even for a few moments and have a way of talking fast that does not permit one to interrupt in response to a statement.  Time after time, I have to smile and say God bless you and walk away.  I have had gargoyle faces pulled when I mention my Faith, I have heard the expression "Ugh!  Don't talk to her/them!"  That is hostility.

Posted later on 26th Sept 2013: Thinking about my personal relationship with Christ and why this joyful fact is denied by some Christians who mistakenly think that Roman Catholics cannot have such a relationship with him unless they leave the Church.  Even the CCC states that Catholics must have a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God.  We simply do not view it as the only way to express Christian faith.  What is more personal than to receive Christ's Body and Blood? Only Catholics believe in the Real Presence yet the Bible is explicit that it is gravely sinful to eat and drink the Body and Blood if one is not in a state of grace. ( 1 Cor: 11:27) Why would this matter if they were only bread and wine? 
 
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
28  That person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
30 That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.
31 If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment;
32 but since we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
 
From Wikipedia: As Justin indicated, the word Eucharist is from the Greek word εὐχαριστία (eucharistia), which means thanksgiving. Catholics typically restrict the term 'communion' to the reception of the Body and Blood of Christ by the communicants during the celebration of the Mass and to the communion of saints.

Earlier still, in about 106, Saint Ignatius of Antioch criticized those who "abstain from the Eucharist and the public prayer, because they will not admit that the Eucharist is the self-same Body of our Savior Jesus Christ, which [flesh] suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His goodness raised up again" (Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 6, 7).

 Similarly, St. Ambrose of Milan countered objections to the doctrine, writing "You may perhaps say: 'My bread is ordinary.' But that bread is bread before the words of the Sacraments; where the consecration has entered in, the bread becomes the Flesh of Christ" (The Sacraments, 333/339-397 A.D. v.2,1339,1340).
 
Why did the apostles organise the distribution of Communion to the sick?  Bread and wine have no miraculous healing powers.

 

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